Multiple order bows / Finland

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Timo Kuhmonen
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Multiple order bows / Finland

Beitrag von Timo Kuhmonen » 18. Mai 2015, 19:33

one observation of 3rd order and second observation of 3rd/4th order bows. See links to Taivaanvahti database:
http://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/38010
http://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/38032

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Elmar Schmidt
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Re: Multiple order bows / Finland

Beitrag von Elmar Schmidt » 18. Mai 2015, 20:09

Thanks Timo!

Very nice images! And how heavily it poured in front of the sun at the instant of the photos in the first link. It seems to me, that no stacking was used as the photographer moved between the shots.

I didn't count exactly, but we still must have no more than about ten natural 3rd order rainbows and less than a handful of 4th order bows on record, since they have been photographed first in Germany four years ago.

The elusive 5th order bow (bordering at the secondary rainbow) has reportedly been documented a couple of times too, but to my knowledge only by one observer, and mostly from a semiarid high mountain site.

Cheers, Elmar

Timo Kuhmonen
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Re: Multiple order bows / Finland

Beitrag von Timo Kuhmonen » 19. Mai 2015, 12:16

Another observation in Taivaanvahti:
http://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/38088

All these what I listed here, are taken by other people than me. I do not have yet observed visually 3rd/4th bow. Also I do not have photos of them yet. I understood it would be possible to see 3rd bow visually in good conditions. I am not 100% sure of the 4th bow, is it bright enough compared to other light what is behind it...

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Elmar Schmidt
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Re: Multiple order bows / Finland

Beitrag von Elmar Schmidt » 19. Mai 2015, 13:09

Timo,

I know. Neither did I, nor dozens of avid skywatchers, so these higher orders are both extremely rare and difficult.

But wait, you posted another nice photographic documentation. It isn't quite clear from my Bing Translator, whether the photographer meant to have caught a hint of the 5th order bow in the last image. Is that a point in the discussion?

Speaking of visual sightings: I believe these are to be expected for the 3rd order only, as has been proven by a combined photographic and visual sighting by Harald Edens in 2013, who even saw color in it, but no 4th order. All other newer 3rd order sightings (e.g. the very first one from Michael Großmann, with which he opened up this field) report a "scintillation" of light at most. The same is true for about 3 to 5 pre-photographic sightings, as has been discussed by R. Lee.

Kind regards

Elmar

Timo Kuhmonen
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Re: Multiple order bows / Finland

Beitrag von Timo Kuhmonen » 19. Mai 2015, 18:28

the 5th order bow, is not observed in the last link I posted. There was comment on atoptics.co.uk -site, that 5th order bow could be documented only by photography and high mountain area with clear air conditions....

Timo Kuhmonen
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Re: Multiple order bows / Finland

Beitrag von Timo Kuhmonen » 22. Mai 2015, 14:06

for a reference, I also attach links to earlier observations at 2014 in Taivaanvahti - that contain both 3rd/4th order bows:
http://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/29781
http://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/29685
http://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/27609

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Elmar Schmidt
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Re: Multiple order bows / Finland

Beitrag von Elmar Schmidt » 23. Mai 2015, 02:58

Thanks,

with (at least) six 3rd order rainbow photos (and a few 4th orders among these) Finland is a hot spot for these phenomena, too. Good to have you post it here, occasionally. I know, that a lot of this is on Facebook, but even so a lot of observations like these will be buried deeply in the web.

Elmar

Timo Kuhmonen
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Re: Multiple order bows / Finland

Beitrag von Timo Kuhmonen » 24. Mai 2015, 13:09

Taivaanvahti database & 3rd order bow, observation by Jarmo Leskinen / Finland. Also 4th order marked as identified - maybe it is too weak for me to see... http://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/38225

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Re: Multiple order bows / Finland

Beitrag von Timo Kuhmonen » 8. Jun 2015, 16:40

Found another new observation... By Sami Leclercq, Polvijärvi/Finland
http://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/38641

do you think there is 3rd order bow ? Look at the last image....

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Elmar Schmidt
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Re: Multiple order bows / Finland

Beitrag von Elmar Schmidt » 8. Jun 2015, 21:36

Thanks,

this is something for the specialists to decide. The multitiude of ringlike structures in only black and white should be smooted to see whether 3rd order remains. And then, its radius should be correctly checked by a starfield photo or at least an approximate calibration.

Elmar



Timo Kuhmonen
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Re: Multiple order bows / Finland

Beitrag von Timo Kuhmonen » 22. Sep 2018, 19:32

Another 3 / 4 order bow, observation by Samuli Ikäheimo
https://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/77815

3rd order seems to be visible in images, without heavy processing...

EDIT: below is link, that might be useful on searching certain phenomena at Taivaanvahti, it looks for keywords "kolmas sateenkaari". I have defined it to seach all dates after 1.1.2011.
https://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observation ... /desc/0/20
Zuletzt geändert von Timo Kuhmonen am 22. Sep 2018, 21:58, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

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Elmar Schmidt
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Re: Multiple order bows / Finland

Beitrag von Elmar Schmidt » 22. Sep 2018, 20:04

Hello Timo,

you're right: the uniform grey cloud brings out the 3rd order bow in the most "natural" way, that I have seen so far. This way, the very few naked-eye sightings, e.g. one by Harald Edens (with color), are vindicated.

Thanks for posting, I guess we must have some forty 3rd order bows on record since Michael Großmann's breakthrough in 2011.

Kind regards, Elmar

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Michael Großmann
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Re: Multiple order bows / Finland

Beitrag von Michael Großmann » 26. Sep 2018, 19:25

Hi Folks,

next time I will update the list, but I think there round about 40 high order bow.

Nice images Timo!!!

Regards, Micha

Timo Kuhmonen
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Re: Multiple order bows / Finland

Beitrag von Timo Kuhmonen » 13. Jul 2020, 15:40

fyi. Observation from Juva, Finland at 12.7.2020. Both third ad fourth orders bows, plus twinned primary...
https://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/91862


Timo Kuhmonen
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Re: Multiple order bows / Finland

Beitrag von Timo Kuhmonen » 8. Sep 2020, 19:52

Lieto / Finland at 6.9.2020 (both 3rd and 4th order bows)
https://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/93429

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Elmar Schmidt
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Re: Multiple order bows / Finland

Beitrag von Elmar Schmidt » 9. Sep 2020, 21:11

The third picture seems to show a trace of a 5th order bow, too.

Elmar

Timo Kuhmonen
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Re: Multiple order bows / Finland

Beitrag von Timo Kuhmonen » 10. Sep 2020, 14:26

Timo Kuhmonen hat geschrieben:
8. Sep 2020, 19:52
Lieto / Finland at 6.9.2020 (both 3rd and 4th order bows)
https://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/93429
Elmar, if referring third image in this observation, how did you see traces of possible (?) 5th order...

I tried to increase heavily saturation and also put strong USM sharpening at GIMP. (radius approx 20 pixels). I still did not see traces of 5th order. Or do you have some other more suitable methods to find traces of this broad & weak bow?

Image on Taivaanvahti is jpg format, so it may not offer as much quality as raw files - for processing

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