Rare halos in Taivaanvahti (Rovaniemi, 30th Oct 2015)
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Timo Kuhmonen
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Rare halos in Taivaanvahti (Rovaniemi, 30th Oct 2015)
link here, observation by J. Moilanen / M. Riikonen
http://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/44975
Personnally I have seen the mentioned 87 degree diffuse arc in artifical light halo images (made ultra bright spotlight). Not sure, if this is the first time seen with natural sunlight ? Attached images in observation, do not yet contrain stacking. There was comments, that more will follow...
http://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/44975
Personnally I have seen the mentioned 87 degree diffuse arc in artifical light halo images (made ultra bright spotlight). Not sure, if this is the first time seen with natural sunlight ? Attached images in observation, do not yet contrain stacking. There was comments, that more will follow...
Timo K, OH7HMS - KP32EV
http://tiku-astro.blogspot.com/
http://tiku-astro.blogspot.com/
- Elmar Schmidt
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Re: Rare halos in Taivaanvahti (Rovaniemi, 30th Oct 2015)
Thanks!
WHAT IS the 87 degree diffuse halo? Can anyone clarify?
Elmar
PS: thanks Timo, I looked at the simulation, but need to understand. I know, that the 22-deg. halo has a "pseudocaustic" disk extending to 50 degrees, cf.
http://www.atoptics.co.uk/halo/circ1.htm
So, is the 87 deg. diffuse halo the same for the 46 deg. halo?
WHAT IS the 87 degree diffuse halo? Can anyone clarify?
Elmar
PS: thanks Timo, I looked at the simulation, but need to understand. I know, that the 22-deg. halo has a "pseudocaustic" disk extending to 50 degrees, cf.
http://www.atoptics.co.uk/halo/circ1.htm
So, is the 87 deg. diffuse halo the same for the 46 deg. halo?
Zuletzt geändert von Elmar Schmidt am 31. Okt 2015, 22:23, insgesamt 2-mal geändert.
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Timo Kuhmonen
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Re: Rare halos in Taivaanvahti (Rovaniemi, 30th Oct 2015)
On the page of observation --> if you press the small green button with "i" letter on it, you get information of the phemomena and some sample images with simulation results. The button is located inside of frame named "lisätiedot" -> right side of text "Diffuusi 87° kaari"
Timo K, OH7HMS - KP32EV
http://tiku-astro.blogspot.com/
http://tiku-astro.blogspot.com/
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Timo Kuhmonen
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Re: Rare halos in Taivaanvahti (Rovaniemi, 30th Oct 2015)
If someone has a new halobook (Riikone) this 87 diffuse halo is there described on page 145. Images are shown for the artifical light version of it. It is mentioned to be a diffuse "area" of light which outer edge it is located at 87 degrees away from the point of light source. Also mentioned that triangular crystals producce better this halo.
In the original observation, Moilanen mentioned that he took crystal samples also. So I quess it is worth of waiting the images...
In the original observation, Moilanen mentioned that he took crystal samples also. So I quess it is worth of waiting the images...
Timo K, OH7HMS - KP32EV
http://tiku-astro.blogspot.com/
http://tiku-astro.blogspot.com/
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Timo Kuhmonen
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Re: Rare halos in Taivaanvahti (Rovaniemi, 30th Oct 2015)
now there is stacked image attached, seen as first one...Timo Kuhmonen hat geschrieben: http://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/44975
Timo K, OH7HMS - KP32EV
http://tiku-astro.blogspot.com/
http://tiku-astro.blogspot.com/
- Andreas Möller
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- Elmar Schmidt
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Re: Rare halos in Taivaanvahti (Rovaniemi, 30th Oct 2015)
So, what is it?
There seems to be nothing much in the literature (except in "Halot").
Elmar
There seems to be nothing much in the literature (except in "Halot").
Elmar
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Michael Ellestad
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Re: Rare halos in Taivaanvahti (Rovaniemi, 30th Oct 2015)
Hey Timo,
So cool to see the diffuse 87d arc in natural sunlight I remember seeing this in spotlight displays and was fascinated by this halo. I hope to get some good halos in Ohio USA this winter. I got a couple pyramidal halos, a very nice hi-sun display and two elliptical halos. Wonder what winter will have in store this halo season.
Regards,
Michael
So cool to see the diffuse 87d arc in natural sunlight I remember seeing this in spotlight displays and was fascinated by this halo. I hope to get some good halos in Ohio USA this winter. I got a couple pyramidal halos, a very nice hi-sun display and two elliptical halos. Wonder what winter will have in store this halo season.
Regards,
Michael
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Timo Kuhmonen
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Re: Rare halos in Taivaanvahti (Rovaniemi, 30th Oct 2015)
Images 4,5,6 added recently -> stacked images / simulations by M. Riikonen.Timo Kuhmonen hat geschrieben: http://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/44975
Timo K, OH7HMS - KP32EV
http://tiku-astro.blogspot.com/
http://tiku-astro.blogspot.com/
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Timo Kuhmonen
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Re: Rare halos in Taivaanvahti (Rovaniemi, 30th Oct 2015)
Crystal sample photo was now attached -> see image7. For me it is difficult to see, what crystal(s) might be more triangularly shaped (for better production of 87 diffuse arc). Maybe some halo experts could say more....Timo Kuhmonen hat geschrieben: http://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/44975
Timo K, OH7HMS - KP32EV
http://tiku-astro.blogspot.com/
http://tiku-astro.blogspot.com/
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Michael Ellestad
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Re: Rare halos in Taivaanvahti (Rovaniemi, 30th Oct 2015)
I myself Timo hope to get some good halos this winter
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Alexander Haußmann
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Re: Rare halos in Taivaanvahti (Rovaniemi, 30th Oct 2015)
Hi guys,
congratulations to Jarmo and Marko for this remarkable observation!
I've seen the older pictures from the lamplight displays, but could not find the English language blog anymore. I have the "Halot" book, but I don't understand Finnish at all. I can only look at the pictures and guess what the captions say by comparing the halo names, and test my conjectures with the HaloPoint software. As far as I understood, the diffuse 87° halo is created by nearly trigonal crystals in random orientation, along a ray path with one internal reflection. It is rather an intensity cut-off than a clearly defined bright ring, and it does not appear in simulations for hexagonal crystals. This implies that it might be regarded as indirect proof for the presence of non-hexagonal crystals.
It is not the outer rim of the 22° or 46° halo disk, nor the 13-24 pyramidal halo (77°), nor Greenlers "98° halo" (a possible explanation for Hevel's halo). By the way, it adds a new element to this Hevel discussion (is there a 90° halo?).
Best regards,
Alex
congratulations to Jarmo and Marko for this remarkable observation!
I've seen the older pictures from the lamplight displays, but could not find the English language blog anymore. I have the "Halot" book, but I don't understand Finnish at all. I can only look at the pictures and guess what the captions say by comparing the halo names, and test my conjectures with the HaloPoint software. As far as I understood, the diffuse 87° halo is created by nearly trigonal crystals in random orientation, along a ray path with one internal reflection. It is rather an intensity cut-off than a clearly defined bright ring, and it does not appear in simulations for hexagonal crystals. This implies that it might be regarded as indirect proof for the presence of non-hexagonal crystals.
It is not the outer rim of the 22° or 46° halo disk, nor the 13-24 pyramidal halo (77°), nor Greenlers "98° halo" (a possible explanation for Hevel's halo). By the way, it adds a new element to this Hevel discussion (is there a 90° halo?).
Best regards,
Alex
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Timo Kuhmonen
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Re: Rare halos in Taivaanvahti (Rovaniemi, 30th Oct 2015)
Alex, do you mean some of these blogs, when referring to "english language blog"...?
http://haloreports.blogspot.fi/
https://www.ursa.fi/blogi/ice-crystal-halos/
https://submoon.wordpress.com/
http://haloreports.blogspot.fi/
https://www.ursa.fi/blogi/ice-crystal-halos/
https://submoon.wordpress.com/
Timo K, OH7HMS - KP32EV
http://tiku-astro.blogspot.com/
http://tiku-astro.blogspot.com/
- Elmar Schmidt
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Re: Rare halos in Taivaanvahti (Rovaniemi, 30th Oct 2015)
Hello Alex,
still, this makes me ask (again): IS there an outer boundary for the 46-deg halo's pseudocaustic, and if so, at WHICH radius?
Regards, Elmar
still, this makes me ask (again): IS there an outer boundary for the 46-deg halo's pseudocaustic, and if so, at WHICH radius?
Regards, Elmar
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Alexander Haußmann
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Re: Rare halos in Taivaanvahti (Rovaniemi, 30th Oct 2015)
Hi Elmar,
the outer rim of the 46° pseudocaustic is located at about 73.5° distance from the sun. The formula is given in the Tape/Moilanen "Angle X" book at page 79.
I was a bit confused that I got a smaller value of 57.8° from a simple in-plane raytracing calculation similar to Vollmer's graph on page 168 of his book. The reason for this difference is that the true maximum deviation is caused by skew rays through the prism.
Best regards,
Alex
the outer rim of the 46° pseudocaustic is located at about 73.5° distance from the sun. The formula is given in the Tape/Moilanen "Angle X" book at page 79.
I was a bit confused that I got a smaller value of 57.8° from a simple in-plane raytracing calculation similar to Vollmer's graph on page 168 of his book. The reason for this difference is that the true maximum deviation is caused by skew rays through the prism.
Best regards,
Alex
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Timo Kuhmonen
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Re: Rare halos in Taivaanvahti (Rovaniemi, 30th Oct 2015)
also one additional halo marked as regocnised (by J. Moilanen) in this display - secondary 22 tangent arc / Vauhkonen arc -> on image6.Timo Kuhmonen hat geschrieben: http://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/44975
It has earlier been photographed on other display by V. Vauhkonen:
http://www.taivaanvahti.fi/observations/show/26691
Timo K, OH7HMS - KP32EV
http://tiku-astro.blogspot.com/
http://tiku-astro.blogspot.com/
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Michael Ellestad
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Re: Rare halos in Taivaanvahti (Rovaniemi, 30th Oct 2015)
Timo,
This is turning out to be a great thread keep up the good work
This is turning out to be a great thread keep up the good work
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